eryxias-第4节
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have been discovered for the cure of disease？ Perhaps in this way we may
throw some light on the question。 It appears to be clear that whatever
constitutes wealth must be useful； and that wealth is one class of useful
things； and now we have to enquire； What is the use of those useful things
which constitute wealth？ For all things probably may be said to be useful
which we use in production； just as all things which have life are animals；
but there is a special kind of animal which we call 'man。' Now if any one
were to ask us； What is that of which； if we were rid； we should not want
medicine and the instruments of medicine； we might reply that this would be
the case if disease were absent from our bodies and either never came to
them at all or went away again as soon as it appeared； and we may therefore
conclude that medicine is the science which is useful for getting rid of
disease。 But if we are further asked； What is that from which； if we were
free； we should have no need of wealth？ can we give an answer？ If we have
none； suppose that we restate the question thus：If a man could live
without food or drink； and yet suffer neither hunger nor thirst； would he
want either money or anything else in order to supply his needs？
ERYXIAS： He would not。
SOCRATES： And does not this apply in other cases？ If we did not want for
the service of the body the things of which we now stand in need； and heat
and cold and the other bodily sensations were unperceived by us； there
would be no use in this so…called wealth； if no one； that is； had any
necessity for those things which now make us wish for wealth in order that
we may satisfy the desires and needs of the body in respect of our various
wants。 And therefore if the possession of wealth is useful in ministering
to our bodily wants； and bodily wants were unknown to us； we should not
need wealth； and possibly there would be no such thing as wealth。
ERYXIAS： Clearly not。
SOCRATES： Then our conclusion is； as would appear； that wealth is what is
useful to this end？
Eryxias once more gave his assent； but the small argument considerably
troubled him。
SOCRATES： And what is your opinion about another question：Would you say
that the same thing can be at one time useful and at another useless for
the production of the same result？
ERYXIAS： I cannot say more than that if we require the same thing to
produce the same result； then it seems to me to be useful； if not； not。
SOCRATES： Then if without the aid of fire we could make a brazen statue；
we should not want fire for that purpose； and if we did not want it； it
would be useless to us？ And the argument applies equally in other cases。
ERYXIAS： Clearly。
SOCRATES： And therefore conditions which are not required for the
existence of a thing are not useful for the production of it？
ERYXIAS： Of course not。
SOCRATES： And if without gold or silver or anything else which we do not
use directly for the body in the way that we do food and drink and bedding
and houses；if without these we could satisfy the wants of the body； they
would be of no use to us for that purpose？
ERYXIAS： They would not。
SOCRATES： They would no longer be regarded as wealth； because they are
useless； whereas that would be wealth which enabled us to obtain what was
useful to us？
ERYXIAS： O Socrates； you will never be able to persuade me that gold and
silver and similar things are not wealth。 But I am very strongly of
opinion that things which are useless to us are not wealth； and that the
money which is useful for this purpose is of the greatest use； not that
these things are not useful towards life； if by them we can procure wealth。
SOCRATES： And how would you answer another question？ There are persons；
are there not； who teach music and grammar and other arts for pay； and thus
procure those things of which they stand in need？
ERYXIAS： There are。
SOCRATES： And these men by the arts which they profess； and in exchange
for them； obtain the necessities of life just as we do by means of gold and
silver？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： Then if they procure by this means what they want for the
purposes of life； that art will be useful towards life？ For do we not say
that silver is useful because it enables us to supply our bodily needs？
ERYXIAS： We do。
SOCRATES： Then if these arts are reckoned among things useful； the arts
are wealth for the same reason as gold and silver are； for； clearly； the
possession of them gives wealth。 Yet a little while ago we found it
difficult to accept the argument which proved that the wisest are the
wealthiest。 But now there seems no escape from this conclusion。 Suppose
that we are asked； 'Is a horse useful to everybody？' will not our reply be；
'No； but only to those who know how to use a horse？'
ERYXIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And so； too； physic is not useful to every one； but only to him
who knows how to use it？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： And the same is the case with everything else？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Then gold and silver and all the other elements which are
supposed to make up wealth are only useful to the person who knows how to
use them？
ERYXIAS： Exactly。
SOCRATES： And were we not saying before that it was the business of a good
man and a gentleman to know where and how anything should be used？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： The good and gentle； therefore will alone have profit from these
things； supposing at least that they know how to use them。 But if so； to
them only will they seem to be wealth。 It appears； however； that where a
person is ignorant of riding； and has horses which are useless to him； if
some one teaches him that art； he makes him also richer； for what was
before useless has now become useful to him； and in giving him knowledge he
has also conferred riches upon him。
ERYXIAS： That is the case。
SOCRATES： Yet I dare be sworn that Critias will not be moved a whit by the
argument。
CRITIAS： No； by heaven； I should be a madman if I were。 But why do you
not finish the argument which proves that gold and silver and other things
which seem to be wealth are not real wealth？ For I have been exceedingly
delighted to hear the discourses which you have just been holding。
SOCRATES： My argument； Critias （I said）； appears to have given you the
same kind of pleasure which you might have derived from some rhapsode's
recitation of Homer； for you do not believe a word of what has been said。
But come now； give me an answer to this question。 Are not certain things
useful to the builder when he is building a house？
CRITIAS： They are。
SOCRATES： And would you say that those things are useful which are
employed in house building；stones and bricks and beams and the like； and
also the instruments with which the builder built the house； the beams and
stones which they provided； and again the instruments by which these were
obtained？
CRITIAS： It seems to me that they are all useful for building。
SOCRATES： And is it not true of every art； that not only the materials but
the instruments by which we procure them and without which the work could
not go on； are useful for that art？
CRITIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And further； the instruments by which the instruments are
procured； and so on； going back from stage to stage ad infinitum；are not
all these； in your opinion； necessary in order to carry out the work？
CRITIAS： We may fairly suppose such to be the case。
SOCRATES： And if a man has food and drink and clothes and the other things
which are useful to the body； would he need gold or silver or any other
means by which he could procure that which he now has？
CRITIAS： I do not think so。
SOCRATES： Then you consider that a man never wants any of these things for
the use of the body？
CRITIAS： Certainly not。
SOCRATES： And if they appear useless to this end； ought they not always to
appear useless？ For we have already laid down the principle that things
cannot be at one time useful and at another time not； in the same process。
CRITIAS： But in that respect your argument and mine are the same。 For you
maintain if they are useful to a certain end； they can never become
useless； whereas I say that in order to accomplish some results bad things
are needed； and good for others。
SOCRATES： But can a bad thing be used to carry out a good purpose？
CRITIAS： I should say not。
SOCRATES： And we call those actions good which a man does for the sake of
virtue？
CRITIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： But can a man learn any kind of knowledge which is imparted by
word of mouth if he is wholly deprived of the sense of hearing？
CRITIAS： Certainly not； I think。
SOCRATES： And will not hearing be useful for virtue； i
