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he is never in luck。  But he would like to have an open council and to hear

both sides。



Hermogenes is of opinion that there is no principle in names; they may be

changed; as we change the names of slaves; whenever we please; and the

altered name is as good as the original one。



You mean to say; for instance; rejoins Socrates; that if I agree to call a

man a horse; then a man will be rightly called a horse by me; and a man by

the rest of the world?  But; surely; there is in words a true and a false;

as there are true and false propositions。  If a whole proposition be true

or false; then the parts of a proposition may be true or false; and the

least parts as well as the greatest; and the least parts are names; and

therefore names may be true or false。  Would Hermogenes maintain that

anybody may give a name to anything; and as many names as he pleases; and

would all these names be always true at the time of giving them? 

Hermogenes replies that this is the only way in which he can conceive that

names are correct; and he appeals to the practice of different nations; and

of the different Hellenic tribes; in confirmation of his view。  Socrates

asks; whether the things differ as the words which represent them differ:

Are we to maintain with Protagoras; that what appears is?  Hermogenes has

always been puzzled about this; but acknowledges; when he is pressed by

Socrates; that there are a few very good men in the world; and a great many

very bad; and the very good are the wise; and the very bad are the foolish;

and this is not mere appearance but reality。  Nor is he disposed to say

with Euthydemus; that all things equally and always belong to all men; in

that case; again; there would be no distinction between bad and good men。 

But then; the only remaining possibility is; that all things have their

several distinct natures; and are independent of our notions about them。 

And not only things; but actions; have distinct natures; and are done by

different processes。  There is a natural way of cutting or burning; and a

natural instrument with which men cut or burn; and any other way will

fail;this is true of all actions。  And speaking is a kind of action; and

naming is a kind of speaking; and we must name according to a natural

process; and with a proper instrument。  We cut with a knife; we pierce with

an awl; we weave with a shuttle; we name with a name。  And as a shuttle

separates the warp from the woof; so a name distinguishes the natures of

things。  The weaver will use the shuttle well;that is; like a weaver; and

the teacher will use the name well;that is; like a teacher。  The shuttle

will be made by the carpenter; the awl by the smith or skilled person。  But

who makes a name?  Does not the law give names; and does not the teacher

receive them from the legislator?  He is the skilled person who makes them;

and of all skilled workmen he is the rarest。  But how does the carpenter

make or repair the shuttle; and to what will he look?  Will he not look at

the ideal which he has in his mind?  And as the different kinds of work

differ; so ought the instruments which make them to differ。  The several

kinds of shuttles ought to answer in material and form to the several kinds

of webs。  And the legislator ought to know the different materials and

forms of which names are made in Hellas and other countries。  But who is to

be the judge of the proper form?  The judge of shuttles is the weaver who

uses them; the judge of lyres is the player of the lyre; the judge of ships

is the pilot。  And will not the judge who is able to direct the legislator

in his work of naming; be he who knows how to use the nameshe who can ask

and answer questionsin short; the dialectician?  The pilot directs the

carpenter how to make the rudder; and the dialectician directs the

legislator how he is to impose names; for to express the ideal forms of

things in syllables and letters is not the easy task; Hermogenes; which you

imagine。



'I should be more readily persuaded; if you would show me this natural

correctness of names。'



Indeed I cannot; but I see that you have advanced; for you now admit that

there is a correctness of names; and that not every one can give a name。 

But what is the nature of this correctness or truth; you must learn from

the Sophists; of whom your brother Callias has bought his reputation for

wisdom rather dearly; and since they require to be paid; you; having no

money; had better learn from him at second…hand。  'Well; but I have just

given up Protagoras; and I should be inconsistent in going to learn of

him。'  Then if you reject him you may learn of the poets; and in particular

of Homer; who distinguishes the names given by Gods and men to the same

things; as in the verse about the river God who fought with Hephaestus;

'whom the Gods call Xanthus; and men call Scamander;' or in the lines in

which he mentions the bird which the Gods call 'Chalcis;' and men

'Cymindis;' or the hill which men call 'Batieia;' and the Gods 'Myrinna's

Tomb。'  Here is an important lesson; for the Gods must of course be right

in their use of names。  And this is not the only truth about philology

which may be learnt from Homer。  Does he not say that Hector's son had two

names



'Hector called him Scamandrius; but the others Astyanax'?



Now; if the men called him Astyanax; is it not probable that the other name

was conferred by the women?  And which are more likely to be rightthe

wiser or the less wise; the men or the women?  Homer evidently agreed with

the men:  and of the name given by them he offers an explanation;the boy

was called Astyanax ('king of the city'); because his father saved the

city。  The names Astyanax and Hector; moreover; are really the same;the

one means a king; and the other is 'a holder or possessor。'  For as the

lion's whelp may be called a lion; or the horse's foal a foal; so the son

of a king may be called a king。  But if the horse had produced a calf; then

that would be called a calf。  Whether the syllables of a name are the same

or not makes no difference; provided the meaning is retained。  For example;

the names of letters; whether vowels or consonants; do not correspond to

their sounds; with the exception of epsilon; upsilon; omicron; omega。  The

name Beta has three letters added to the soundand yet this does not alter

the sense of the word; or prevent the whole name having the value which the

legislator intended。  And the same may be said of a king and the son of a

king; who like other animals resemble each other in the course of nature;

the words by which they are signified may be disguised; and yet amid

differences of sound the etymologist may recognise the same notion; just as

the physician recognises the power of the same drugs under different

disguises of colour and smell。  Hector and Astyanax have only one letter

alike; but they have the same meaning; and Agis (leader) is altogether

different in sound from Polemarchus (chief in war); or Eupolemus (good

warrior); but the two words present the same idea of leader or general;

like the words Iatrocles and Acesimbrotus; which equally denote a

physician。  The son succeeds the father as the foal succeeds the horse; but

when; out of the course of nature; a prodigy occurs; and the offspring no

longer resembles the parent; then the names no longer agree。  This may be

illustrated by the case of Agamemnon and his son Orestes; of whom the

former has a name significant of his patience at the siege of Troy; while

the name of the latter indicates his savage; man…of…the…mountain nature。 

Atreus again; for his murder of Chrysippus; and his cruelty to Thyestes; is

rightly named Atreus; which; to the eye of the etymologist; is ateros

(destructive); ateires (stubborn); atreotos (fearless); and Pelops is o ta

pelas oron (he who sees what is near only); because in his eagerness to win

Hippodamia; he was unconscious of the remoter consequences which the murder

of Myrtilus would entail upon his race。  The name Tantalus; if slightly

changed; offers two etymologies; either apo tes tou lithou talanteias; or

apo tou talantaton einai; signifying at once the hanging of the stone over

his head in the world below; and the misery which he brought upon his

country。  And the name of his father; Zeus; Dios; Zenos; has an excellent

meaning; though hard to be understood; because really a sentence which is

divided into two parts (Zeus; Dios)。  For he; being the lord and king of

all; is the author of our being; and in him all live:  this is implied in

the double form; Dios; Zenos; which being put together and interpreted is

di on ze panta。  There may; at first sight; appear to be some irreverence

in calling him the son of Cronos; who is a proverb for stupidity; but the

meaning is that Zeus himself is the son of a mighty intellect; Kronos;

quasi koros; not in the sense of a youth; but quasi to katharon kai

akeraton tou nouthe pure and garnished mind; which i

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