eryxias(厄里克夏斯)-第4节
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can we not get an answer in some such way as this： Would an Athenian；
who had a thousand talents weight of the stones which lie about in the
Agora and which we do not employ for any purpose； be thought to be any
the richer？
ERASISTRATUS： He certainly would not appear so to me。
SOCRATES： But if he possessed a thousand talents weight of some
precious stone； we should say that he was very rich？
ERASISTRATUS： Of course。
SOCRATES： The reason is that the one is useless and the other
useful？
ERASISTRATUS： Yes。
SOCRATES： And in the same way among the Scythians a house has
no value because they have no use for a house； nor would a Scythian set so
much store on the finest house in the world as on a leather coat； because
he could use the one and not the other。 Or again； the Carthaginian
coinage is not wealth in our eyes； for we could not employ it； as we can
silver； to procure what we need； and therefore it is of no use to us。
ERASISTRATUS： True。
SOCRATES： What is useful to us； then； is wealth； and what is
useless to us is not wealth？
But how do you mean； Socrates？ said Eryxias； interrupting。 Do we
not employ in our intercourse with one another speech and violence （？）
and various other things？ These are useful and yet they are not wealth。
SOCRATES： Clearly we have not yet answered the question； What is
wealth？ That wealth must be useful； to be wealth at all；thus much is
acknowledged by every one。 But what particular thing is wealth； if not
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all things？ Let us pursue the argument in another way； and then we may
perhaps find what we are seeking。 What is the use of wealth； and for
what purpose has the possession of riches been invented；in the sense； I
mean； in which drugs have been discovered for the cure of disease？
Perhaps in this way we may throw some light on the question。 It appears
to be clear that whatever constitutes wealth must be useful； and that wealth
is one class of useful things； and now we have to enquire； What is the use
of those useful things which constitute wealth？ For all things probably
may be said to be useful which we use in production； just as all things
which have life are animals； but there is a special kind of animal which we
call 'man。' Now if any one were to ask us； What is that of which； if we
were rid； we should not want medicine and the instruments of medicine；
we might reply that this would be the case if disease were absent from our
bodies and either never came to them at all or went away again as soon as
it appeared； and we may therefore conclude that medicine is the science
which is useful for getting rid of disease。 But if we are further asked；
What is that from which； if we were free； we should have no need of
wealth？ can we give an answer？ If we have none； suppose that we
restate the question thus：If a man could live without food or drink； and
yet suffer neither hunger nor thirst； would he want either money or
anything else in order to supply his needs？
ERYXIAS： He would not。
SOCRATES： And does not this apply in other cases？ If we did not
want for the service of the body the things of which we now stand in need；
and heat and cold and the other bodily sensations were unperceived by us；
there would be no use in this so…called wealth； if no one； that is； had any
necessity for those things which now make us wish for wealth in order that
we may satisfy the desires and needs of the body in respect of our various
wants。 And therefore if the possession of wealth is useful in ministering
to our bodily wants； and bodily wants were unknown to us； we should not
need wealth； and possibly there would be no such thing as wealth。
ERYXIAS： Clearly not。
SOCRATES： Then our conclusion is； as would appear； that wealth is
what is useful to this end？
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Eryxias once more gave his assent； but the small argument
considerably troubled him。
SOCRATES： And what is your opinion about another question：
Would you say that the same thing can be at one time useful and at another
useless for the production of the same result？
ERYXIAS： I cannot say more than that if we require the same thing
to produce the same result； then it seems to me to be useful； if not； not。
SOCRATES： Then if without the aid of fire we could make a brazen
statue； we should not want fire for that purpose； and if we did not want it；
it would be useless to us？ And the argument applies equally in other
cases。
ERYXIAS： Clearly。
SOCRATES： And therefore conditions which are not required for the
existence of a thing are not useful for the production of it？
ERYXIAS： Of course not。
SOCRATES： And if without gold or silver or anything else which we
do not use directly for the body in the way that we do food and drink and
bedding and houses；if without these we could satisfy the wants of the
body； they would be of no use to us for that purpose？
ERYXIAS： They would not。
SOCRATES： They would no longer be regarded as wealth； because
they are useless； whereas that would be wealth which enabled us to obtain
what was useful to us？
ERYXIAS： O Socrates； you will never be able to persuade me that
gold and silver and similar things are not wealth。 But I am very strongly
of opinion that things which are useless to us are not wealth； and that the
money which is useful for this purpose is of the greatest use； not that these
things are not useful towards life； if by them we can procure wealth。
SOCRATES： And how would you answer another question？ There
are persons； are there not； who teach music and grammar and other arts for
pay； and thus procure those things of which they stand in need？
ERYXIAS： There are。
SOCRATES： And these men by the arts which they profess； and in
exchange for them； obtain the necessities of life just as we do by means of
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gold and silver？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： Then if they procure by this means what they want for
the purposes of life； that art will be useful towards life？ For do we not
say that silver is useful because it enables us to supply our bodily needs？
ERYXIAS： We do。
SOCRATES： Then if these arts are reckoned among things useful；
the arts are wealth for the same reason as gold and silver are； for； clearly；
the possession of them gives wealth。 Yet a little while ago we found it
difficult to accept the argument which proved that the wisest are the
wealthiest。 But now there seems no escape from this conclusion。
Suppose that we are asked； 'Is a horse useful to everybody？' will not our
reply be； 'No； but only to those who know how to use a horse？'
ERYXIAS： Certainly。
SOCRATES： And so； too； physic is not useful to every one； but only
to him who knows how to use it？
ERYXIAS： True。
SOCRATES： And the same is the case with everything else？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： Then gold and silver and all the other elements which
are supposed to make up wealth are only useful to the person who knows
how to use them？
ERYXIAS： Exactly。
SOCRATES： And were we not saying before that it was the business
of a good man and a gentleman to know where and how anything should
be used？
ERYXIAS： Yes。
SOCRATES： The good and gentle； therefore will alone have profit
from these things； supposing at least that they know how to use them。
But if so； to them only will they seem to be wealth。 It appears； however；
that where a person is ignorant of riding； and has horses which are useless
to him； if some one teaches him that
