laches-第5节
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counsels because we thought that you would have attended to the subject；
especially as you have children who； like our own； are nearly of an age to
be educated。 Well； then； if you have no objection； suppose that you take
Socrates into partnership； and do you and he ask and answer one another's
questions： for； as he has well said； we are deliberating about the most
important of our concerns。 I hope that you will see fit to comply with our
request。
NICIAS： I see very clearly； Lysimachus； that you have only known Socrates'
father； and have no acquaintance with Socrates himself： at least； you can
only have known him when he was a child； and may have met him among his
fellow…wardsmen； in company with his father； at a sacrifice； or at some
other gathering。 You clearly show that you have never known him since he
arrived at manhood。
LYSIMACHUS： Why do you say that； Nicias？
NICIAS： Because you seem not to be aware that any one who has an
intellectual affinity to Socrates and enters into conversation with him is
liable to be drawn into an argument； and whatever subject he may start； he
will be continually carried round and round by him； until at last he finds
that he has to give an account both of his present and past life； and when
he is once entangled； Socrates will not let him go until he has completely
and thoroughly sifted him。 Now I am used to his ways； and I know that he
will certainly do as I say； and also that I myself shall be the sufferer；
for I am fond of his conversation； Lysimachus。 And I think that there is
no harm in being reminded of any wrong thing which we are； or have been；
doing： he who does not fly from reproof will be sure to take more heed of
his after…life； as Solon says； he will wish and desire to be learning so
long as he lives； and will not think that old age of itself brings wisdom。
To me； to be cross…examined by Socrates is neither unusual nor unpleasant；
indeed； I knew all along that where Socrates was； the argument would soon
pass from our sons to ourselves； and therefore； I say that for my part； I
am quite willing to discourse with Socrates in his own manner； but you had
better ask our friend Laches what his feeling may be。
LACHES： I have but one feeling； Nicias； or （shall I say？） two feelings；
about discussions。 Some would think that I am a lover； and to others I may
seem to be a hater of discourse； for when I hear a man discoursing of
virtue； or of any sort of wisdom； who is a true man and worthy of his
theme； I am delighted beyond measure： and I compare the man and his words；
and note the harmony and correspondence of them。 And such an one I deem to
be the true musician； attuned to a fairer harmony than that of the lyre； or
any pleasant instrument of music； for truly he has in his own life a
harmony of words and deeds arranged； not in the Ionian； or in the Phrygian
mode； nor yet in the Lydian； but in the true Hellenic mode； which is the
Dorian； and no other。 Such an one makes me merry with the sound of his
voice； and when I hear him I am thought to be a lover of discourse； so
eager am I in drinking in his words。 But a man whose actions do not agree
with his words is an annoyance to me； and the better he speaks the more I
hate him； and then I seem to be a hater of discourse。 As to Socrates； I
have no knowledge of his words； but of old； as would seem； I have had
experience of his deeds； and his deeds show that free and noble sentiments
are natural to him。 And if his words accord； then I am of one mind with
him； and shall be delighted to be interrogated by a man such as he is； and
shall not be annoyed at having to learn of him： for I too agree with
Solon； 'that I would fain grow old； learning many things。' But I must be
allowed to add 'of the good only。' Socrates must be willing to allow that
he is a good teacher； or I shall be a dull and uncongenial pupil： but that
the teacher is younger； or not as yet in reputeanything of that sort is
of no account with me。 And therefore； Socrates； I give you notice that you
may teach and confute me as much as ever you like； and also learn of me
anything which I know。 So high is the opinion which I have entertained of
you ever since the day on which you were my companion in danger； and gave a
proof of your valour such as only the man of merit can give。 Therefore；
say whatever you like； and do not mind about the difference of our ages。
SOCRATES： I cannot say that either of you show any reluctance to take
counsel and advise with me。
LYSIMACHUS： But this is our proper business； and yours as well as ours；
for I reckon you as one of us。 Please then to take my place； and find out
from Nicias and Laches what we want to know； for the sake of the youths；
and talk and consult with them： for I am old； and my memory is bad； and I
do not remember the questions which I am going to ask； or the answers to
them； and if there is any interruption I am quite lost。 I will therefore
beg of you to carry on the proposed discussion by your selves； and I will
listen； and Melesias and I will act upon your conclusions。
SOCRATES： Let us； Nicias and Laches； comply with the request of Lysimachus
and Melesias。 There will be no harm in asking ourselves the question which
was first proposed to us： 'Who have been our own instructors in this sort
of training； and whom have we made better？' But the other mode of carrying
on the enquiry will bring us equally to the same point； and will be more
like proceeding from first principles。 For if we knew that the addition of
something would improve some other thing； and were able to make the
addition； then； clearly； we must know how that about which we are advising
may be best and most easily attained。 Perhaps you do not understand what I
mean。 Then let me make my meaning plainer in this way。 Suppose we knew
that the addition of sight makes better the eyes which possess this gift；
and also were able to impart sight to the eyes； then； clearly； we should
know the nature of sight； and should be able to advise how this gift of
sight may be best and most easily attained； but if we knew neither what
sight is； nor what hearing is； we should not be very good medical advisers
about the eyes or the ears； or about the best mode of giving sight and
hearing to them。
LACHES： That is true； Socrates。
SOCRATES： And are not our two friends； Laches； at this very moment
inviting us to consider in what way the gift of virtue may be imparted to
their sons for the improvement of their minds？
LACHES： Very true。
SOCRATES： Then must we not first know the nature of virtue？ For how can
we advise any one about the best mode of attaining something of which we
are wholly ignorant？
LACHES： I do not think that we can； Socrates。
SOCRATES： Then； Laches； we may presume that we know the nature of virtue？
LACHES： Yes。
SOCRATES： And that which we know we must surely be able to tell？
LACHES： Certainly。
SOCRATES： I would not have us begin； my friend； with enquiring about the
whole of virtue； for that may be more than we can accomplish； let us first
consider whether we have a sufficient knowledge of a part； the enquiry will
thus probably be made easier to us。
LACHES： Let us do as you say； Socrates。
SOCRATES： Then which of the parts of virtue shall we select？ Must we not
select that to which the art of fighting in armour is supposed to conduce？
And is not that generally thought to be courage？
LACHES： Yes； certainly。
SOCRATES： Then； Laches； suppose that we first set about determining the
nature of courage； and in the second place proceed to enquire how the young
men may attain this quality by the help of studies and pursuits。 Tell me；
if you can； what is courage。
LACHES： Indeed； Socrates； I see no difficulty in answering； he is a man of
courage who does not run away； but remains at his post and fights against
the enemy； there can be no mistake about that。
SOCRATES： Very good； Laches； and yet I fear that I did not express myself
clearly； and therefore you have answered not the question which I intended
to ask； but another。
LACHES： What do you mean； Socrates？
SOCRATES： I will endeavour to explain； you would call a man courageous who
remains at his post； and fights with the enemy？
LACHES： Certainly
