timaeu-第1节

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　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　TIMAEUS

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　by　Plato

　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　　translated　by　Benjamin　Jowett

TIMAEUS



　　PERSONS　OF　THE　DIALOGUE：　SOCRATES；　CRITIAS；　TIMAEUS；　HERMOCRATES



　　Socrates。　One；　two；　three；　but　where；　my　dear　Timaeus；　is　the　fourth

of　those　who　were　yesterday　my　guests　and　are　to　be　my　entertainers

to…day？

　　Timaeus。　He　has　been　taken　ill；　Socrates；　for　he　would　not　willingly

have　been　absent　from　this　gathering。

　　Soc。　Then；　if　he　is　not　coming；　you　and　the　two　others　must　supply

his　place。

　　Tim。　Certainly；　and　we　will　do　all　that　we　can；　having　been

handsomely　entertained　by　you　yesterday；　those　of　us　who　remain　should

be　only　too　glad　to　return　your　hospitality。

　　Soc。　Do　you　remember　what　were　the　points　of　which　I　required　you　to

speak？

　　Tim。　We　remember　some　of　them；　and　you　will　be　here　to　remind　us

of　anything　which　we　have　forgotten：　or　rather；　if　we　are　not

troubling　you；　will　you　briefly　recapitulate　the　whole；　and　then　the

particulars　will　be　more　firmly　fixed　in　our　memories？

　　Soc。　To　be　sure　I　will：　the　chief　theme　of　my　yesterday's

discourse　was　the　State…how　constituted　and　of　what　citizens

composed　it　would　seem　likely　to　be　most　perfect。

　　Tim。　Yes；　Socrates；　and　what　you　said　of　it　was　very　much　to　our

mind。

　　Soc。　Did　we　not　begin　by　separating　the　husbandmen　and　the

artisans　from　the　class　of　defenders　of　the　State？

　　Tim。　Yes。

　　Soc。　And　when　we　had　given　to　each　one　that　single　employment　and

particular　art　which　was　suited　to　his　nature；　we　spoke　of　those　who

were　intended　to　be　our　warriors；　and　said　that　they　were　to　be

guardians　of　the　city　against　attacks　from　within　as　well　as　from

without；　and　to　have　no　other　employment；　they　were　to　be　merciful

in　judging　their　subjects；　of　whom　they　were　by　nature　friends；　but

fierce　to　their　enemies；　when　they　came　across　them　in　battle。

　　Tim。　Exactly。

　　Soc。　We　said；　if　I　am　not　mistaken；　that　the　guardians　should　be

gifted　with　a　temperament　in　a　high　degree　both　passionate　and

philosophical；　and　that　then　they　would　be　as　they　ought　to　be；　gentle

to　their　friends　and　fierce　with　their　enemies。

　　Tim。　Certainly。

　　Soc。　And　what　did　we　say　of　their　education？　Were　they　not　to　be

trained　in　gymnastic；　and　music；　and　all　other　sorts　of　knowledge

which　were　proper　for　them？

　　Tim。　Very　true。

　　Soc。　And　being　thus　trained　they　were　not　to　consider　gold　or　silver

or　anything　else　to　be　their　own　private　property；　they　were　to　be

like　hired　troops；　receiving　pay　for　keeping　guard　from　those　who　were

protected　by　them…the　pay　was　to　be　no　more　than　would　suffice　for　men

of　simple　life；　and　they　were　to　spend　in　common；　and　to　live　together

in　the　continual　practice　of　virtue；　which　was　to　be　their　sole

pursuit。

　　Tim。　That　was　also　said。

　　Soc。　Neither　did　we　forget　the　women；　of　whom　we　declared；　that

their　natures　should　be　assimilated　and　brought　into　harmony　with

those　of　the　men；　and　that　common　pursuits　should　be　assigned　to

them　both　in　time　of　war　and　in　their　ordinary　life。

　　Tim。　That；　again；　was　as　you　say。

　　Soc。　And　what　about　the　procreation　of　children？　Or　rather　not　the

proposal　too　singular　to　be　forgotten？　for　all　wives　and　children　were

to　be　in　common；　to　the　intent　that　no　one　should　ever　know　his　own

child；　but　they　were　to　imagine　that　they　were　all　one　family；　those

who　were　within　a　suitable　limit　of　age　were　to　be　brothers　and

sisters；　those　who　were　of　an　elder　generation　parents　and

grandparents；　and　those　of　a　younger　children　and　grandchildren。

　　Tim。　Yes；　and　the　proposal　is　easy　to　remember；　as　you　say。

　　Soc。　And　do　you　also　remember　how；　with　a　view　of　securing　as　far　as

we　could　the　best　breed；　we　said　that　the　chief　magistrates；　male

and　female；　should　contrive　secretly；　by　the　use　of　certain　lots；　so

to　arrange　the　nuptial　meeting；　that　the　bad　of　either　sex　and　the

good　of　either　sex　might　pair　with　their　like；　and　there　was　to　be

no　quarrelling　on　this　account；　for　they　would　imagine　that　the

union　was　a　mere　accident；　and　was　to　be　attributed　to　the　lot？

　　Tim。　I　remember。

　　Soc。　And　you　remember　how　we　said　that　the　children　of　the　good

parents　were　to　be　educated；　and　the　children　of　the　bad　secretly

dispersed　among　the　inferior　citizens；　and　while　they　were　all　growing

up　the　rulers　were　to　be　on　the　look…out；　and　to　bring　up　from　below

in　their　turn　those　who　were　worthy；　and　those　among　themselves　who

were　unworthy　were　to　take　the　places　of　those　who　came　up？

　　Tim。　True。

　　Soc。　Then　have　I　now　given　you　all　the　heads　of　our　yesterday's

discussion？　Or　is　there　anything　more；　my　dear　Timaeus；　which　has　been

omitted？

　　Tim。　Nothing；　Socrates；　it　was　just　as　you　have　said。

　　Soc。　I　should　like；　before　proceeding　further；　to　tell　you　how　I

feel　about　the　State　which　we　have　described。　I　might　compare　myself

to　a　person　who；　on　beholding　beautiful　animals　either　created　by

the　painter's　art；　or；　better　still；　alive　but　at　rest；　is　seized　with

a　desire　of　seeing　them　in　motion　or　engaged　in　some　struggle　or

conflict　to　which　their　forms　appear　suited；　this　is　my　feeling

about　the　State　which　we　have　been　describing。　There　are　conflicts

which　all　cities　undergo；　and　I　should　like　to　hear　some　one　tell　of

our　own　city　carrying　on　a　struggle　against　her　neighbours；　and　how

she　went　out　to　war　in　a　becoming　manner；　and　when　at　war　showed　by

the　greatness　of　her　actions　and　the　magnanimity　of　her　words　in

dealing　with　other　cities　a　result　worthy　of　her　training　and

education。　Now　I；　Critias　and　Hermocrates；　am　conscious　that　I

myself　should　never　be　able　to　celebrate　the　city　and　her　citizens

in　a　befitting　manner；　and　I　am　not　surprised　at　my　own　incapacity；　to

me　the　wonder　is　rather　that　the　poets　present　as　well　as　past　are

no　better…not　that　I　mean　to　depreciate　them；　but　every　one　can　see

that　they　are　a　tribe　of　imitators；　and　will　imitate　best　and　most

easily　the　life　in　which　they　have　been　brought　up；　while　that　which

is　beyond　the　range　of　a　man's　education　he　finds　hard　to　carry　out　in

action；　and　still　harder　adequately　to　represent　in　language。　I　am

aware　that　the　Sophists　have　plenty　of　brave　words　and　fair

conceits；　but　I　am　afraid　that　being　only　wanderers　from　one　city　to

another；　and　having　never　had　habitations　of　their　own；　they　may

fail　in　their　conception　of　philosophers　and　statesmen；　and　may　not

know　what　they　do　and　say　in　time　of　war；　when　they　are　fighting　or

holding　parley　with　their　enemies。　And　thus　people　of　your　class　are

the　only　ones　remaining　who　are　fitted　by　nature　and　education　to　take

part　at　once　both　in　politics　and　philosophy。　Here　is　Timaeus；　of

Locris　in　Italy；　a　city　which　has　admirable　laws；　and　who　is　himself

in　wealth　and　rank　the　equal　of　any　of　his　fellow…citizens；　he　has

held　the　most　important　and　honourable　offices　in　his　own　state；

and；　as　I　believe；　has　scaled　the　heights　of　all　philosophy；　and

here　is　Critias；　whom　every　Athenian　knows　to　be　no　novice　in　the

matters　of　which　we　are　speaking；　and　as　to；　Hermocrates；　I　am　assured

by　many　witnesses　that　his　genius　and　education　qualify　him　to　take

part　in　any　speculation　of　the　kind。　And　therefore　yesterday　when　I

saw　that　you　wanted　me　to　describe　the　formation　of　the　State；　I

readily　assented；　being　very　well　aware；　that；　if　you　only　would；　none

were　better　qualified　to　carry　the　discussion　further；　and　that　when

you　had　engaged　our　city　in　a　suitable　war；　you　of　all　men　living

could　best　exhibit　her　playing　a　fitting　part。　When　I　had　completed　my

task；　I　in　return　imposed　this　other　task　upon　you。　You　conferred

together　and　agreed　to　entertain　me　to…day；　as　I　had　entertained

you；　with　a　feast　of　discourse。　Here　am　I　in　festive　array；　and　no　man

can　be　more　ready　for　the　promised　banquet。

　　Her。　And　we　too；　Socrates；　as　Timaeus　says；　will　not　be　wanting　in

enthusiasm；　and　there　is　no　excuse　for　not　complying　with　your

request。　As　soon　as　we　arrived　yesterday　at　the　guest…chamber　of

Critias；　with　whom　we　are　staying；　or　rather　on　our　way　thither；　we

talked　the　matter　over；　and　he　told　us　an　ancient　tradition；　which　I

wish；　Critias；　that　you　would　repeat　to　Socrates；　so　that　he　may

help　us　to　judge　whether　it　will　satisfy　his　requirements　or　not。

　　Crit。　I　will；　if　Timaeus；　who　is　our　other　partner；　approves。

　　Tim。　I　quite　approve。

　　Crit。　Then　listen；　Socrates；　to　a　tale　which；　though　strange；　is

certainly　true；　having　been　attested　by　Solon；　who　was　the　wisest　of

the　seven　sages。　He　was　a　relative　and　a　dear　friend　of　my

great…grandfather；　Dropides；　as　he　himself　says　in　many　passages　of

his　poems；　and　he　told　the　story　to　Critias；　my　grandfather；　who

remembered　and　repeated　it　to　us。　There　were　of　old；　he　said；　great

and　marvellous　actions　of　the　Athenian　city；　which　have　passed　into

oblivion　through　lapse　of　time　and　the　destruction　of　mankind；　and　one

in　particular；　greater　than　all　the　rest。　This　we　will　now　rehearse。

It　will　be　a　fitting　monument　of　our　gratitude　to　you；