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myself　if　I　supposed　myself　ready　to　deal　less　liberally　with　an

adversary　than　I　was　willing　to　be　treated　myself。　　Judge　Douglas　in

a　general　way；　without　putting　it　in　a　direct　shape；　revives　the　old

charge　against　me　in　reference　to　the　Mexican　War。　　He　does　not　take

the　responsibility　of　putting　it　in　a　very　definite　form；　but　makes　a

general　reference　to　it。　　That　charge　is　more　than　ten　years　old。　　He

complains　of　Trumbull　and　myself　because　he　says　we　bring　charges

against　him　one　or　two　years　old。　　He　knows；　too；　that　in　regard　to

the　Mexican　War　story　the　more　respectable　papers　of　his　own　party

throughout　the　State　have　been　compelled　to　take　it　back　and

acknowledge　that　it　was　a　lie。



＇Here　Mr。　LINCOLN　turned　to　the　crowd　on　the　platform；　and；　selecting

HON。　ORLANDO　B。　FICKLIN；　led　him　forward　and　said：＇



I　do　not　mean　to　do　anything　with　Mr。　FICKLIN　except　to　present　his

face　and　tell　you　that　he　personal1y　knows　it　to　be　a　lie！　　He　was　a

member　of　Congress　at　the　only　time　I　was　in　Congress；　and　＇FICKLIN＇

knows　that　whenever　there　was　an　attempt　to　procure　a　vote　of　mine

which　would　indorse　the　origin　and　justice　of　the　war；　I　refused　to

give　such　indorsement　and　voted　against　it；　but　I　never　voted　against

the　supplies　for　the　army；　and　he　knows；　as　well　as　Judge　Douglas；

that　whenever　a　dollar　was　asked　by　way　of　compensation　or　otherwise

for　the　benefit　of　the　soldiers　I　gave　all　the　votes　that　FICKLIN　or

Douglas　did；　and　perhaps　more。



＇Mr。　FICKLIN：　My　friends；　I　wish　to　say　this　in　reference　to　the

matter：　Mr。　Lincoln　and　myself　are　just　as　good　personal　friends　as

Judge　Douglas　and　myself。　　In　reference　to　this　Mexican　War；　my

recollection　is　that　when　Ashmun's　resolution　＇amendment＇　was　offered

by　Mr。　Ashmun　of　Massachusetts；　in　which　he　declared　that　the　Mexican

War　was　unnecessary　and　unconstitutionally　commenced　by　the　President

…my　recollection　is　that　Mr。　Lincoln　voted　for　that　resolution。＇



That　is　the　truth。　　Now；　you　all　remember　that　was　a　resolution

censuring　the　President　for　the　manner　in　which　the　war　was　begun。

You　know　they　have　charged　that　I　voted　against　the　supplies；　by

which　I　starved　the　soldiers　who　were　out　fighting　the　battles　of

their　country。　　I　say　that　FICKLIN　knows　it　is　false。　　When　that

charge　was　brought　forward　by　the　Chicago　Times；　the　Springfield

Register　＇Douglas's　organ＇　reminded　the　Times　that　the　charge　really

applied　to　John　Henry；　and　I　do　know　that　John　Henry　is　now　making

speeches　and　fiercely　battling　for　Judge　Douglas。　　If　the　Judge　now

says　that　he　offers　this　as　a　sort　of　setoff　to　what　I　said　to…day　in

reference　to　Trumbull's　charge；　then　I　remind　him　that　he　made　this

charge　before　I　said　a　word　about　Trumbull's。　　He　brought　this

forward　at　Ottawa；　the　first　time　we　met　face　to　face；　and　in　the

opening　speech　that　Judge　Douglas　made　he　attacked　me　in　regard　to　a

matter　ten　years　old。　　Is　n't　he　a　pretty　man　to　be　whining　about

people　making　charges　against　him　only　two　years　old！



The　Judge　thinks　it　is　altogether　wrong　that　I　should　have　dwelt　upon

this　charge　of　Trumbull's　at　all。　　I　gave　the　apology　for　doing　so　in

my　opening　speech。　　Perhaps　it　did　n't　fix　your　attention。　　I　said

that　when　Judge　Douglas　was　speaking　at　placewhere　I　spoke　on　the

succeeding　day　he　used　very　harsh　language　about　this　charge。　　Two　or

three　times　afterward　I　said　I　had　confidence　in　Judge　Trumbull's

veracity　and　intelligence；　and　my　own　opinion　was；　from　what　I　knew

of　the　character　of　Judge　Trumbull；　that　he　would　vindicate　his

position　and　prove　whatever　he　had　stated　to　be　true。　　This　I

repeated　two　or　three　times；　and　then　I　dropped　it；　without　saying

anything　more　on　the　subject　for　weeksperhaps　a　month。　　I　passed　it

by　without　noticing　it　at　all　till　I　found；　at　Jacksonville；　Judge

Douglas　in　the　plenitude　of　his　power　is　not　willing　to　answer

Trumbull　and　let　me　alone；　but　he　comes　out　there　and　uses　this

language：　〃He　should　not　hereafter　occupy　his　time　in　refuting　such

charges　made　by　Trumbull　but　that；　Lincoln　having　indorsed　the

character　of　Trumbull　for　veracity；　he　should　hold　him　＇Lincoln＇

responsible　for　the　slanders。〃　　What　was　Lincoln　to　do？　　Did　he　not

do　right；　when　he　had　the　fit　opportunity　of　meeting　Judge　Douglas

here；　to　tell　him　he　was　ready　for　the　responsibility？　　I　ask　a

candid　audience　whether　in　doing　thus　Judge　Douglas　was　not　the

assailant　rather　than　I？　　Here　I　meet　him　face　to　face；　and　say　I　am

ready　to　take　the　responsibility；　so　far　as　it　rests　on　me。



Having　done　so　I　ask　the　attention　of　this　audience　to　the　question

whether　I　have　succeeded　in　sustaining　the　charge；　and　whether　Judge

Douglas　has　at　all　succeeded　in　rebutting　it？　　You　all　heard　me　call

upon　him　to　say　which　of　these　pieces　of　evidence　was　a　forgery。

Does　he　say　that　what　I　present　here　as　a　copy　of　the　original　Toombs

bill　is　a　forgery？　　Does　he　say　that　what　I　present　as　a　copy　of　the

bill　reported　by　himself　is　a　forgery；　or　what　is　presented　as　a

transcript　from　the　Globe　of　the　quotations　from　Bigler's　speech　is　a

forgery？　　Does　he　say　the　quotations　from　his　own　speech　are

forgeries？　　Does　he　say　this　transcript　from　Trumbull's　speech　is　a

forgery？



＇〃He　didn't　deny　one　of　them。〃＇



I　would　then　like　to　know　how　it　comes　about　that　when　each　piece　of

a　story　is　true　the　whole　story　turns　out　false。　　I　take　it　these

people　have　some　sense；　they　see　plainly　that　Judge　Douglas　is

playing　cuttle…fish；　a　small　species　of　fish　that　has　no　mode　of

defending　itself　when　pursued　except　by　throwing　out　a　black　fluid；

which　makes　the　water　so　dark　the　enemy　cannot　see　it；　and　thus　it

escapes。　　Ain't　the　Judge　playing　the　cuttle…fish？



Now；　I　would　ask　very　special　attention　to　the　consideration　of　Judge

Douglas's　speech　at　Jacksonville；　and　when　you　shall　read　his　speech

of　to…day；　I　ask　you　to　watch　closely　and　see　which　of　these　pieces

of　testimony；　every　one　of　which　he　says　is　a　forgery；　he　has　shown

to　be　such。　　Not　one　of　them　has　he　shown　to　be　a　forgery。　　Then　I

ask　the　original　question；　if　each　of　the　pieces　of　testimony　is

true；　how　is　it　possible　that　the　whole　is　a　falsehood？



In　regard　to　Trumbull's　charge　that　he　Douglas＇　inserted　a　provision

into　the　bill　to　prevent　the　constitution　being　submitted　to　the

people；　what　was　his　answer？　　He　comes　here　and　reads　from　the

Congressional　Globe　to　show　that　on　his　motion　that　provision　was

struck　out　of　the　bill。　　Why；　Trumbull　has　not　said　it　was　not

stricken　out；　but　Trumbull　says　he　＇Douglas＇　put　it　in；　and　it　is　no

answer　to　the　charge　to　say　he　afterwards　took　it　out。　　Both　are

perhaps　true。　　It　was　in　regard　to　that　thing　precisely　that　I　told

him　he　had　dropped　the　cub。　　Trumbull　shows　you　that　by　his

introducing　the　bill　it　was　his　cub。　　It　is　no　answer　to　that

assertion　to　call　Trumbull　a　liar　merely　because　he　did　not　specially

say　that　Douglas　struck　it　out。　　Suppose　that　were　the　case；　does　it

answer　Trumbull？　　I　assert　that　you　＇pointing　to　an　individual＇　are

here　to…day；　and　you　undertake　to　prove　me　a　liar　by　showing　that　you

were　in　Mattoon　yesterday。　　I　say　that　you　took　your　hat　off　your

head；　and　you　prove　me　a　liar　by　putting　it　on　your　head。　　That　is

the　whole　force　of　Douglas's　argument。



Now；　I　want　to　come　back　to　my　original　question。　　Trumbull　says　that

Judge　Douglas　had　a　bill　with　a　provision　in　it　for　submitting　a

constitution　to　be　made　to　a　vote　of　the　people　of　Kansas。　　Does

Judge　Douglas　deny　that　fact？　　Does　be　deny　that　the　provision　which

Trumbull　reads　was　put　in　that　bill？　　Then　Trumbull　says　he　struck　it

out。　　Does　he　dare　to　deny　that？　　He　does　not；　and　I　have　the　right

to　repeat　the　question　；Why　Judge　Douglas　took　it　out？　　Bigler　has

said　there　was　a　combination　of　certain　senators；　among　whom　he　did

not　include　Judge　Douglas；　by　which　it　was　agreed　that　the　Kansas

Bill　should　have　a　clause　in　it　not　to　have　the　constitution　formed

under　it　submitted　to　a　vote　of　the　people。　　He　did　not　say　that

Douglas　was　among　them；　but　we　prove　by　another　source　that　about　the

same　time　Douglas　comes　into　the　Senate　with　that　provision　stricken

out　of　the　bill。　　Although　Bigler　cannot　say　they　were　all　working　in

concert；　yet　it　looks　very　much　as　if　the　thing　was　agreed　upon　and

done　with　a　mutual　understanding　after　the　conference；　and　while　we

do　not　know　that　it　was　absolutely　so；　yet　it　looks　so　probable　that

we　have　a　right　to　call　upon　the　man　who　knows　the　true　reason　why　it

was　done　to　tell　what　the　true　reason　was。　　When　he　will　not　tell

what　the　true　reason　was；　he　stands　in　the　attitude　of　an　accused

thief　who　has　stolen　goods　in　his　possession；　and　when　called　to

account　refuses　to　tell　where　he　got　them。　　Not　only　is　this　the

evidence；　but　when　he　comes　in　with　the　bill　having　the　provision

stricken　out；　he　tells　us　in　a　speech；　not　then　but　since；　that　thes