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remarks　upon　this　subject　uses　the　language　which　I　will　now　read。

Speaking　of　me；　the　Judge　says：



〃He　goes　on　and　insists　that　the　Dred　Scott　decision　would　carry

slavery　into　the　free　States；　notwithstanding　the　decision　itself

says　the　contrary。〃　　And　he　adds：



〃Mr。　Lincoln　knows　that　there　is　no　member　of　the　Supreme　Court　that

holds　that　doctrine。　　He　knows　that　every　one　of　them　in　their

opinions　held　the　reverse。



I　especially　introduce　this　subject　again　for　the　purpose　of　saying

that　I　have　the　Dred　Scott　decision　here；　and　I　will　thank　Judge

Douglas　to　lay　his　finger　upon　the　place　in　the　entire　opinions　of

the　court　where　any　one　of　them　〃says　the　contrary。〃　　It　is　very　hard

to　affirm　a　negative　with　entire　confidence。　　I　say；　however；　that　I

have　examined　that　decision　with　a　good　deal　of　care；　as　a　lawyer

examines　a　decision　and；　so　far　as　I　have　been　able　to　do　so；　the

court　has　nowhere　in　its　opinions　said　that　the　States　have　the　power

to　exclude　slavery；　nor　have　they　used　other　language　substantially

that；　I　also　say；　so　far　as　I　can　find；　not　one　of　the　concurring

judges　has　said　that　the　States　can　exclude　slavery；　nor　said

anything　that　was　substantially　that。　　The　nearest　approach　that　any

one　of　them　has　made　to　it；　so　far　as　I　can　find；　was　by　Judge

Nelson；　and　the　approach　he　made　to　it　was　exactly；　in　substance；　the

Nebraska　Bill；that　the　States　had　the　exclusive　power　over　the

question　of　slavery；　so　far　as　they　are　not　limited　by　the

Constitution　of　the　United　States。　　I　asked　the　question；　therefore；

if　the　non…concurring　judges；　McLean　or　Curtis；　had　asked　to　get　an

express　declaration　that　the　States　could　absolutely　exclude　slavery

from　their　limits；　what　reason　have　we　to　believe　that　it　would　not

have　been　voted　down　by　the　majority　of　the　judges；　just　as　Chase's

amendment　was　voted　down　by　Judge　Douglas　and　his　compeers　when　it

was　offered　to　the　Nebraska　Bill。



Also；　at　Galesburgh；　I　said　something　in　regard　to　those　Springfield

resolutions　that　Judge　Douglas　had　attempted　to　use　upon　me　at

Ottawa；　and　commented　at　some　length　upon　the　fact　that　they　were；　as

presented；　not　genuine。　　Judge　Douglas　in　his　reply　to　me　seemed　to

be　somewhat　exasperated。　　He　said　he　would　never　have　believed　that

Abraham　Lincoln；　as　he　kindly　called　me；　would　have　attempted　such　a

thing　as　I　had　attempted　upon　that　occasion；　and　among　other

expressions　which　he　used　toward　me；　was　that　I　dared　to　say　forgery；

that　I　had　dared　to　say　forgery　＇turning　to　Judge　Douglas＇。　　Yes；

Judge；　I　did　dare　to　say　forgery。　　But　in　this　political　canvass　the

Judge　ought　to　remember　that　I　was　not　the　first　who　dared　to　say

forgery。　　At　Jacksonville；　Judge　Douglas　made　a　speech　in　answer　to

something　said　by　Judge　Trumbull；　and　at　the　close　of　what　he　said

upon　that　subject；　he　dared　to　say　that　Trumbull　had　forged　his

evidence。　　He　said；　too；　that　he　should　not　concern　himself　with

Trumbull　any　more；　but　thereafter　he　should　hold　Lincoln　responsible

for　the　slanders　upon　him。　　When　I　met　him　at　Charleston　after　that；

although　I　think　that　I　should　not　have　noticed　the　subject　if　he　had

not　said　he　would　hold　me　responsible　for　it；　I　spread　out　before　him

the　statements　of　the　evidence　that　Judge　Trumbull　had　used；　and　I

asked　Judge　Douglas；　piece　by　piece；　to　put　his　finger　upon　one　piece

of　all　that　evidence　that　he　would　say　was　a　forgery！　　When　I　went

through　with　each　and　every　piece；　Judge　Douglas　did　not　dare　then　to

say　that　any　piece　of　it　was　a　forgery。　　So　it　seems　that　there　are

some　things　that　Judge　Douglas　dares　to　do；　and　some　that　he　dares

not　to　do。



＇A　voice：　It　is　the　same　thing　with　you。＇



Yes；　sir；　it　is　the　same　thing　with　me。　　I　do　dare　to　say　forgery

when　it　is　true；　and　don't　dare　to　say　forgery　when　it　is　false。　　Now

I　will　say　here　to　this　audience　and　to　Judge　Douglas　I　have　not

dared　to　say　he　committed　a　forgery；　and　I　never　shall　until　I　know

it；　but　I　did　dare　to　sayjust　to　suggest　to　the　Judgethat　a

forgery　had　been　committed；　which　by　his　own　showing　had　been　traced

to　him　and　two　of　his　friends。　　I　dared　to　suggest　to　him　that　he　had

expressly　promised　in　one　of　his　public　speeches　to　investigate　that

matter；　and　I　dared　to　suggest　to　him　that　there　was　an　implied

promise　that　when　he　investigated　it　he　would　make　known　the　result。

I　dared　to　suggest　to　the　Judge　that　he　could　not　expect　to　be　quite

clear　of　suspicion　of　that　fraud；　for　since　the　time　that　promise　was

made　he　had　been　with　those　friends；　and　had　not　kept　his　promise　in

regard　to　the　investigation　and　the　report　upon　it。　　I　am　not　a　very

daring　man；　but　I　dared　that　much；　Judge；　and　I　am　not　much　scared

about　it　yet。　　When　the　Judge　says　he　would　n't　have　believed　of

Abraham　Lincoln　that　he　would　have　made　such　an　attempt　as　that　he

reminds　me　of　the　fact　that　he　entered　upon　this　canvass　with　the

purpose　to　treat　me　courteously；　that　touched　me　somewhat。　　It　sets

me　to　thinking。　　I　was　aware；　when　it　was　first　agreed　that　Judge

Douglas　and　I　were　to　have　these　seven　joint　discussions；　that　they

were　the　successive　acts　of　a　drama；　perhaps　I　should　say；　to　be

enacted；　not　merely　in　the　face　of　audiences　like　this；　but　in　the

face　of　the　nation；　and　to　some　extent；　by　my　relation　to　him；　and

not　from　anything　in　myself；　in　the　face　of　the　world；　and　I　am

anxious　that　they　should　be　conducted　with　dignity　and　in　the　good

temper　which　would　be　befitting　the　vast　audiences　before　which　it

was　conducted。　　But　when　Judge　Douglas　got　home　from　Washington　and

made　his　first　speech　in　Chicago；　the　evening　afterward　I　made　some

sort　of　a　reply　to　it。　　His　second　speech　was　made　at　Bloomington；　in

which　he　commented　upon　my　speech　at　Chicago　and　said　that　I　had　used

language　ingeniously　contrived　to　conceal　my　intentions；　or　words　to

that　effect。　　Now；　I　understand　that　this　is　an　imputation　upon　my

veracity　and　my　candor。　　I　do　not　know　what　the　Judge　understood　by

it；　but　in　our　first　discussion；　at　Ottawa；　he　led　off　by　charging　a

bargain；　somewhat　corrupt　in　its　character；　upon　Trumbull　and

myself；that　we　had　entered　into　a　bargain；　one　of　the　terms　of

which　was　that　Trumbull　was　to　Abolitionize　the　old　Democratic　party；

and　I　（Lincoln）　was　to　Abolitionize　the　old　Whig　party；　I　pretending

to　be　as　good　an　old…line　Whig　as　ever。　　Judge　Douglas　may　not

understand　that　he　implicated　my　truthfulness　and　my　honor　when　he

said　I　was　doing　one　thing　and　pretending　another；　and　I

misunderstood　him　if　he　thought　he　was　treating　me　in　a　dignified

way；　as　a　man　of　honor　and　truth；　as　he　now　claims　he　was　disposed　to

treat　me。　　Even　after　that　time；　at　Galesburgh；　when　he　brings

forward　an　extract　from　a　speech　made　at　Chicago　and　an　extract　from

a　speech　made　at　Charleston；　to　prove　that　I　was　trying　to　play　a

double　part；　that　I　was　trying　to　cheat　the　public；　and　get　votes

upon　one　set　of　principles　at　one　place；　and　upon　another　set　of

principles　at　another　place；I　do　not　understand　but　what　he

impeaches　my　honor；　my　veracity；　and　my　candor；　and　because　he　does

this；　I　do　not　understand　that　I　am　bound；　if　I　see　a　truthful　ground

for　it；　to　keep　my　hands　off　of　him。　　As　soon　as　I　learned　that　Judge

Douglas　was　disposed　to　treat　me　in　this　way；　I　signified　in　one　of

my　speeches　that　I　should　be　driven　to　draw　upon　whatever　of　humble

resources　I　might　have；to　adopt　a　new　course　with　him。　　I　was　not

entirely　sure　that　I　should　be　able　to　hold　my　own　with　him；　but　I　at

least　had　the　purpose　made　to　do　as　well　as　I　could　upon　him；　and　now

I　say　that　I　will　not　be　the　first　to　cry　〃Hold。〃　　I　think　it

originated　with　the　Judge；　and　when　he　quits；　I　probably　will。　　But　I

shall　not　ask　any　favors　at　all。　　He　asks　me；　or　he　asks　the

audience；　if　I　wish　to　push　this　matter　to　the　point　of　personal

difficulty。　　I　tell　him；　no。　　He　did　not　make　a　mistake；　in　one　of

his　early　speeches；　when　he　called　me　an　〃amiable〃　man；　though

perhaps　he　did　when　he　called　me　an　〃intelligent〃　man。　　It　really

hurts　me　very　much　to　suppose　that　I　have　wronged　anybody　on　earth。

I　again　tell　him；　no！　　I　very　much　prefer；　when　this　canvass　shall　be

over；　however　it　may　result；　that　we　at　least　part　without　any　bitter

recollections　of　personal　difficulties。



The　Judge；　in　his　concluding　speech　at　Galesburgh；　says　that　I　was

pushing　this　matter　to　a　personal　difficulty；　to　avoid　the

responsibility　for　the　enormity　of　my　principles。　　I　say　to　the　Judge

and　this　audience；　now；　that　I　will　again　state　our　principles；　as

well　as　I　hastily　can；　in　all　their　enormity；　and　if　the　Judge

hereafter　chooses　to　confine　himself　to　a　war　upon　these　principles；

he　will　probably　not　find　me　departing　from　the　same　course。



We　have　in　this　nation　this　element　of　domestic　slavery。　　It　is　a

matter　of　absolute　certainty　that　it　is　a　disturbing　element。　　It　is

the　opinion　of　all　the　gr