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the truth may seem discourteous察and I hesitate to answer察lest Gorgias should imagine that I am making fun of his own profession。 For whether or no this is that art of rhetoric which Gorgias practises I really cannot tell此from what he was just now saying察nothing appeared of what he thought of his art察but the rhetoric which I mean is a part of a not very creditable whole。   Gor。 A part of what察Socrates拭Say what you mean察and never mind me。   Soc。 In my opinion then察Gorgias察the whole of which rhetoric is a part is not an art at all察but the habit of a bold and ready wit察which knows how to manage mankind此this habit I sum up under the word ;flattery;察and it appears to me to have many other parts察one of which is cookery察which may seem to be an art察but察as I maintain察is only an experience or routine and not an art此another part is rhetoric察and the art of attiring and sophistry are two others此thus there are four branches察and four different things answering to them。 And Polus may ask察if he likes察for he has not as yet been informed察what part of flattery is rhetoric此he did not see that I had not yet answered him when he proceeded to ask a further question此Whether I do not think rhetoric a fine thing拭But I shall not tell him whether rhetoric is a fine thing or not察until I have first answered察 What is rhetoric拭─For that would not be right察Polus察but I shall be happy to answer察if you will ask me察What part of flattery is rhetoric拭  Pol。 I will ask and do you answer拭What part of flattery is rhetoric拭  Soc。 Will you understand my answer拭Rhetoric察according to my view察is the ghost or counterfeit of a part of politics。   Pol。 And noble or ignoble拭  Soc。 Ignoble察I should say察if I am compelled to answer察for I call what is bad ignoble此though I doubt whether you understand what I was saying before。   Gor。 Indeed察Socrates察I cannot say that I understand myself。   Soc。 I do not wonder察Gorgias察for I have not as yet explained myself察and our friend Polus察colt by name and colt by nature察is apt to run away。   Gor。 Never mind him察but explain to me what you mean by saying that rhetoric is the counterfeit of a part of politics。   Soc。 I will try察then察to explain my notion of rhetoric察and if I am mistaken察my friend Polus shall refute me。 We may assume the existence of bodies and of souls拭  Gor。 Of course。   Soc。 You would further admit that there is a good condition of either of them拭  Gor。 Yes。   Soc。 Which condition may not be really good察but good only in appearance拭I mean to say察that there are many persons who appear to be in good health察and whom only a physician or trainer will discern at first sight not to be in good health。   Gor。 True。   Soc。 And this applies not only to the body察but also to the soul此in either there may be that which gives the appearance of health and not the reality拭  Gor。 Yes察certainly。   Soc。 And now I will endeavour to explain to you more clearly what I mean此The soul and body being two察have two arts corresponding to them此there is the art of politics attending on the soul察and another art attending on the body察of which I know no single name察but which may be described as having two divisions察one of them gymnastic察and the other medicine。 And in politics there is a legislative part察which answers to gymnastic察as justice does to medicine察and the two parts run into one another察justice having to do with the same subject as legislation察and medicine with the same subject as gymnastic察but with a difference。 Now察seeing that there are these four arts察two attending on the body and two on the soul for their highest good察flattery knowing察or rather guessing their natures察has distributed herself into four shams or simulations of them察she puts on the likeness of some one or other of them察and pretends to be that which she simulates察and having no regard for men's highest interests察is ever making pleasure the bait of the unwary察and deceiving them into the belief that she is of the highest value to them。 Cookery simulates the disguise of medicine察and pretends to know what food is the best for the body察and if the physician and the cook had to enter into a competition in which children were the judges察or men who had no more sense than children察as to which of them best understands the goodness or badness of food察the physician would be starved to death。 A flattery I deem this to be and of an ignoble sort察Polus察for to you I am now addressing myself察because it aims at pleasure without any thought of the best。 An art I do not call it察but only an experience察because it is unable to explain or to give a reason of the nature of its own applications。 And I do not call any irrational thing an art察but if you dispute my words察I am prepared to argue in defence of them。   Cookery察then察I maintain to be a flattery which takes the form of medicine察and tiring察in like manner察is a flattery which takes the form of gymnastic察and is knavish察false察ignoble察illiberal察working deceitfully by the help of lines察and colours察and enamels察and garments察and making men affect a spurious beauty to the neglect of the true beauty which is given by gymnastic。   I would rather not be tedious察and therefore I will only say察after the manner of the geometricians for I think that by this time you will be able to follow

    astiring 此gymnastic 今此cookery 此medicine察or rather察    astiring 此gymnastic 今此sophistry 此legislation察and     as cookery 此medicine 今此rhetoric 此justice。

And this察I say察is the natural difference between the rhetorician and the sophist察but by reason of their near connection察they are apt to be jumbled up together察neither do they know what to make of themselves察nor do other men know what to make of them。 For if the body presided over itself察and were not under the guidance of the soul察and the soul did not discern and discriminate between cookery and medicine察but the body was made the judge of them察and the rule of judgment was the bodily delight which was given by them察then the word of Anaxagoras察that word with which you察friend Polus察are so well acquainted察would prevail far and wide此 Chaos; would come again察and cookery察health察and medicine would mingle in an indiscriminate mass。 And now I have told you my notion of rhetoric察which is察in relation to the soul察what cookery is to the body。 I may have been inconsistent in making a long speech察when I would not allow you to discourse at length。 But I think that I may be excused察because you did not understand me察and could make no use of my answer when I spoke shortly察and therefore I had to enter into explanation。 And if I show an equal inability to make use of yours察I hope that you will speak at equal length察but if I am able to understand you察let me have the benefit of your brevity察as is only fair此And now you may do what you please with my answer。   Pol。 What do you mean拭do you think that rhetoric is flattery拭  Soc。 Nay察I said a part of flattery´if at your age察Polus察you cannot remember察what will you do by´and´by察when you get older拭  Pol。 And are the good rhetoricians meanly regarded in states察under the idea that they are flatterers拭  Soc。 Is that a question or the beginning of a speech拭  Pol。 I am asking a question。   Soc。 Then my answer is察that they are not regarded at all。   Pol。 How not regarded拭Have they not very great power in states拭  Soc。 Not if you mean to say that power is a good to the possessor。   Pol。 And that is what I do mean to say。   Soc。 Then察if so察I think that they have the least power of all the citizens。   Pol。 What Are they not like tyrants拭They kill and despoil and exile any one whom they please。   Soc。 By the dog察Polus察I cannot make out at each deliverance of yours察whether you are giving an opinion of your own察or asking a question of me。   Pol。 I am asking a question of you。   Soc。 Yes察my friend察but you ask two questions at once。   Pol。 How two questions拭  Soc。 Why察did you not say just now that the rhetoricians are like tyrants察and that they kill and despoil or exile any one whom they please拭  Pol。 I did。   Soc。 Well then察I say to you that here are two questions in one察and I will answer both of them。 And I tell you察Polus察that rhetoricians and tyrants have the least possible power in states察as I was just now saying察for they do literally nothing which they will察but only what they think best。   Pol。 And is not that a great power拭  Soc。 Polus has already said the reverse。   Soc。 No察by the great´what do you call him拭not you察for you say that power is a good to him who has the power。   Pol。 I do。   Soc。 And would you maintain that if a fool does what he think best察this is a good察and would you call this great power拭  Pol。 I should not。   Soc。 Then you must prove that the rhetorician is not a fool察and that rhetoric is an art and not a flattery´and so you will have refuted me察but if you leave me unrefuted察why察the rhetoricians who do what they think best in states察and the tyrants察will have nothing upon which to congratulate themselves察if as you say察power be indeed a good察admitting at the same time that what is done without sense is an evil。   Pol。 Yes察I admit that。   Soc。 How then can the rhetoricians or the tyrants have great power in states察

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