phaedrus-第10节

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value　the　practice　of　writing。



　　Phaedr。　No　doubt。



　　Soc。　And　when　the　king　or　orator　has　the　power；　as　Lycurgus　or　Solon



or　Darius　had；　of　attaining　an　immortality　or　authorship　in　a　state；



is　he　not　thought　by　posterity；　when　they　see　his　compositions；　and



does　he　not　think　himself；　while　he　is　yet　alive；　to　be　a　god？



　　Phaedr。　Very　true。



　　Soc。　Then　do　you　think　that　any　one　of　this　class；　however



ill…disposed；　would　reproach　Lysias　with　being　an　author？



　　Phaedr。　Not　upon　your　view；　for　according　to　you　he　would　be　casting



a　slur　upon　his　own　favourite　pursuit。



　　Soc。　Any　one　may　see　that　there　is　no　disgrace　in　the　mere　fact　of



writing。



　　Phaedr。　Certainly　not。



　　Soc。　The　disgrace　begins　when　a　man　writes　not　well；　but　badly。



　　Phaedr。　Clearly。



　　Soc。　And　what　is　well　and　what　is　badly…need　we　ask　Lysias；　or　any



other　poet　or　orator；　who　ever　wrote　or　will　write　either　a



political　or　any　other　work；　in　metre　or　out　of　metre；　poet　or　prose



writer；　to　teach　us　this？



　　Phaedr。　Need　we？　For　what　should　a　man　live　if　not　for　the　pleasures



of　discourse？　Surely　not　for　the　sake　of　bodily　pleasures；　which



almost　always　have　previous　pain　as　a　condition　of　them；　and　therefore



are　rightly　called　slavish。



　　Soc。　There　is　time　enough。　And　I　believe　that　the　grasshoppers



chirruping　after　their　manner　in　the　heat　of　the　sun　over　our　heads



are　talking　to　one　another　and　looking　down　at　us。　What　would　they　say



if　they　saw　that　we；　like　the　many；　are　not　conversing；　but　slumbering



at　mid…day；　lulled　by　their　voices；　too　indolent　to　think？　Would



they　not　have　a　right　to　laugh　at　us？　They　might　imagine　that　we



were　slaves；　who；　coming　to　rest　at　a　place　of　resort　of　theirs；



like　sheep　lie　asleep　at　noon　around　the　well。　But　if　they　see　us



discoursing；　and　like　Odysseus　sailing　past　them；　deaf　to　their



siren　voices；　they　may　perhaps；　out　of　respect；　give　us　of　the　gifts



which　they　receive　from　the　gods　that　they　may　impart　them　to　men。



　　Phaedr。　What　gifts　do　you　mean？　I　never　heard　of　any。



　　Soc。　A　lover　of　music　like　yourself　ought　surely　to　have　heard　the



story　of　the　grasshoppers；　who　are　said　to　have　been　human　beings　in



an　age　before　the　Muses。　And　when　the　Muses　came　and　song　appeared



they　were　ravished　with　delight；　and　singing　always；　never　thought



of　eating　and　drinking；　until　at　last　in　their　forgetfulness　they



died。　And　now　they　live　again　in　the　grasshoppers；　and　this　is　the



return　which　the　Muses　make　to　them…they　neither　hunger；　nor　thirst；



but　from　the　hour　of　their　birth　are　always　singing；　and　never



eating　or　drinking；　and　when　they　die　they　go　and　inform　the　Muses



in　heaven　who　honours　them　on　earth。　They　win　the　love　of



Terpsichore　for　the　dancers　by　their　report　of　them；　of　Erato　for



the　lovers；　and　of　the　other　Muses　for　those　who　do　them　honour；



according　to　the　several　ways　of　honouring　them　of　Calliope　the　eldest



Muse　and　of　Urania　who　is　next　to　her；　for　the　philosophers；　of



whose　music　the　grasshoppers　make　report　to　them；　for　these　are　the



Muses　who　are　chiefly　concerned　with　heaven　and　thought；　divine　as



well　as　human；　and　they　have　the　sweetest　utterance。　For　many　reasons；



then；　we　ought　always　to　talk　and　not　to　sleep　at　mid…day。



　　Phaedr。　Let　us　talk。



　　Soc。　Shall　we　discuss　the　rules　of　writing　and　speech　as　we　were



proposing？



　　Phaedr。　Very　good。



　　Soc。　In　good　speaking　should　not　the　mind　of　the　speaker　know　the



truth　of　the　matter　about　which　he　is　going　to　speak？



　　Phaedr。　And　yet；　Socrates；　I　have　heard　that　he　who　would　be　an



orator　has　nothing　to　do　with　true　justice；　but　only　with　that　which



is　likely　to　be　approved　by　the　many　who　sit　in　judgment；　nor　with　the



truly　good　or　honourable；　but　only　with　opinion　about　them；　and　that



from　opinion　comes　persuasion；　and　not　from　the　truth。



　　Soc。　The　words　of　the　wise　are　not　to　be　set　aside；　for　there　is



probably　something　in　them；　and　therefore　the　meaning　of　this　saying



is　not　hastily　to　be　dismissed。



　　Phaedr。　Very　true。



　　Soc。　Let　us　put　the　matter　thus：…Suppose　that　I　persuaded　you　to　buy



a　horse　and　go　to　the　wars。　Neither　of　us　knew　what　a　horse　was



like；　but　I　knew　that　you　believed　a　horse　to　be　of　tame　animals　the



one　which　has　the　longest　ears。



　　Phaedr。　That　would　be　ridiculous。



　　Soc。　There　is　something　more　ridiculous　coming：…Suppose；　further；



that　in　sober　earnest　I；　having　persuaded　you　of　this；　went　and



composed　a　speech　in　honour　of　an　ass；　whom　I　entitled　a　horse



beginning：　〃A　noble　animal　and　a　most　useful　possession；　especially　in



war；　and　you　may　get　on　his　back　and　fight；　and　he　will　carry



baggage　or　anything。〃



　　Phaedr。　How　ridiculous！



　　Soc。　Ridiculous！　Yes；　but　is　not　even　a　ridiculous　friend　better



than　a　cunning　enemy？



　　Phaedr。　Certainly。



　　Soc。　And　when　the　orator　instead　of　putting　an　ass　in　the　place　of　a



horse　puts　good　for　evil　being　himself　as　ignorant　of　their　true



nature　as　the　city　on　which　he　imposes　is　ignorant；　and　having　studied



the　notions　of　the　multitude；　falsely　persuades　them　not　about　〃the



shadow　of　an　ass；〃　which　he　confounds　with　a　horse；　but　about　good



which　he　confounds　with　evily…what　will　be　the　harvest　which



rhetoric　will　be　likely　to　gather　after　the　sowing　of　that　seed？



　　Phaedr。　The　reverse　of　good。



　　Soc。　But　perhaps　rhetoric　has　been　getting　too　roughly　handled　by



us；　and　she　might　answer：　What　amazing　nonsense　you　are　talking！　As　if



I　forced　any　man　to　learn　to　speak　in　ignorance　of　the　truth！　Whatever



my　advice　may　be　worth；　I　should　have　told　him　to　arrive　at　the



truth　first；　and　then　come　to　me。　At　the　same　time　I　boldly　assert



that　mere　knowledge　of　the　truth　will　not　give　you　the　art　of



persuasion。



　　Phaedr。　There　is　reason　in　the　lady's　defence　of　herself。



　　Soc。　Quite　true；　if　only　the　other　arguments　which　remain　to　be



brought　up　bear　her　witness　that　she　is　an　art　at　all。　But　I　seem　to



hear　them　arraying　themselves　on　the　opposite　side；　declaring　that　she



speaks　falsely；　and　that　rhetoric　is　a　mere　routine　and　trick；　not



an　art。　Lo！　a　Spartan　appears；　and　says　that　there　never　is　nor　ever



will　be　a　real　art　of　speaking　which　is　divorced　from　the　truth。



　　Phaedr。　And　what　are　these　arguments；　Socrates？　Bring　them　out



that　we　may　examine　them。



　　Soc。　Come　out；　fair　children；　and　convince　Phaedrus；　who　is　the



father　of　similar　beauties；　that　he　will　never　be　able　to　speak



about　anything　as　he　ought　to　speak　unless　he　have　a　knowledge　of



philosophy。　And　let　Phaedrus　answer　you。



　　Phaedr。　Put　the　question。



　　Soc。　Is　not　rhetoric；　taken　generally；　a　universal　art　of　enchanting



the　mind　by　arguments；　which　is　practised　not　only　in　courts　and



public　assemblies；　but　in　private　houses　also；　having　to　do　with　all



matters；　great　as　well　as　small；　good　and　bad　alike；　and　is　in　all



equally　right；　and　equally　to　be　esteemed…that　is　what　you　have　heard？



　　Phaedr。　Nay；　not　exactly　that；　I　should　say　rather　that　I　have　heard



the　art　confined　to　speaking　and　writing　in　lawsuits；　and　to



speaking　in　public　assemblies…not　extended　farther。



　　Soc。　Then　I　suppose　that　you　have　only　heard　of　the　rhetoric　of



Nestor　and　Odysseus；　which　they　composed　in　their　leisure　hours　when



at　Troy；　and　never　of　the　rhetoric　of　Palamedes？



　　Phaedr。　No　more　than　of　Nestor　and　Odysseus；　unless　Gorgias　is



your　Nestor；　and　Thrasymachus　or　Theodorus　your　Odysseus。



　　Soc。　Perhaps　that　is　my　meaning。　But　let　us　leave　them。　And　do　you



tell　me；　instead；　what　are　plaintiff　and　defendant　doing　in　a　law



court…are　they　not　contending？



　　Phaedr。　Exactly　so。



　　Soc。　About　the　just　and　unjust…that　is　the　matter　in　dispute？



　　Phaedr。　Yes。



　　Soc。　And　a　professor　of　the　art　will　make　the　same　thing　appear　to



the　same　persons　to　be　at　one　time　just；　at　another　time；　if　he　is



so　inclined；　to　be　unjust？



　　Phaedr。　Exactly。



　　Soc。　And　when　he　speaks　in　the　assembly；　he　will　make　the　same



things　seem　good　to　the　city　at　one　time；　and　at　another　time　the



reverse　of　good？



　　Phaedr。　That　is　true。



　　Soc。　Have　we　not　heard　of　the　Eleatic　Palamedes　（Zeno）；　who　has　an



art　of　speaking　by　which　he　makes　the　same　things　appear　to　his



hearers　like　and　unlike；　one　and　many；　at　rest　and　in　motion？



　　Phaedr。　Very　true。



　　Soc。　The　art　of　disputation；　then；　is　not　confined　to　the　courts　and



the　assembly；　but　is　one　and　the　same　in　every　use　of　language；　this



is　the　art；　if